O intrebare: mai circula trenuri de marfa ucrainene in tranzit intre Campulung la Tisa si Valea Viseului, pe linie larga ?

Conform MT 1988/1989 linia Sighetul Marmatiei- Campulung la Tisa apare ca linie larga (a fost "incalecata" dupa 1990 ?), pe care circulau 5 perechi trenuri mixte/zi (dar erau probabil automotoare D2 de cale larga), linia fiind notata ca 411.
Curios era faptul ca desi acestea erau a SZD, apar ca circuland numai intre Sighetul Marmatiei si Campulung la Tisa (probabil, intre Campulung la Tisa si Teresva circulau fara calatori).

Linia este incalecata , pana in 89 circulau trenuri CFR pe cale normala , ulterior au scos cursele CFR si au ramas doar cele 2 curse cu Ucraina care erau facute de Motoarele Ucrainiene , in acest moment marfa pe aceasta linie nu am vazut , atat calea normala cat si cea larga este foarte ruginita si vegetatia incepe sa creasca bine pe linie , decamdata e la faza ca vara pe unele locuri nu se vede linie din iarba .

Erau pe undeva pe internet niste informatii ca nu mai circula trenuri de calatori pe aceasta sectie pentru a evita contrabanda cu Ucraina. Totusi cu Republica Moldova CFR mai trambaleaza un vagon.
Probabil UZ nu mai vrea sa plateasca tranzit pentru marfare si s-a gasit alta solutie de transport.

Am niste poze cu o rama UZ, in Valea Viseului si in Sighetul Marmatiei dar le-am postat la vremea aia pe railwayfan.ro

Cand am trecut pe acolo anul trecut, linia larga intre Sighet si frontiera era ruginita la fel si cea normala intre Sighet si Campulung la Tisa.

Hello :-)

My Romanian is extremely basic, so I will use English. I have some questions concerning line between Sighetu Mamartiei and Valea Viseului. Couldn't find the answers on my own...

Does this photo show bridge on the Cisa river between Bocicioul Mare and Velky Bickov? The one that originally was a railway bridge? Presently only pillars in the river remain...
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/8246354

Can you tell when was the bridge converted from railway to road traffic?

Can you tell when was bridge on the Cisa river between Bocicioul Mare and Velky Bickov was destroyed (by the flood i suppose?)

Officially Soviet/Ukrainian railway on the right bank of Tisa River was brought to Bila Cerkva. Hovever Google Earth shows something that suggests that track might have been brought as far as Velky Bickov. Does anyone know anything about this? Did this line start working at all? Were there train station on Ukrainian and Romanian bank?
What I think is a trace of the track - http://goo.gl/DwEvy

Does anyone know what happened to the railway bridge on the Tisa River between Solotvina and Sighetu M.? When was it destroyed is dismantled? Also, metal parts of the bridge that presently serves as road border crossing point look as if they were cut of, and under silver paint red one is showing.
Is this the same bridge?

Does anyone know if these bridgeheads were made just for a dead end track, or was there longer lines?
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/35583920

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/15875653
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/21549331

Also, is there anywhere on the web a database of Romanian railways (dates of construction or modernization, like it was made for Polish railways:
stand alone program: http://www.kolej.one.pl/index.php?dzial=mapa
online (not as much fun) http://mapa.kolej.one.pl/

Thanks a lot,
Szymek :-)
https://picasaweb.google.com/szymekkozlowski

Hello again

Here is a map of the region made in ~1910 by the Austrian-Hungarian authorities of the time:

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/42-48.jpg

The small piece that interests us:



Now, the same area on Google Earth (with more zoom extend). With green I have drawn the missing rail links acros Tisa river. Red is the surviving track and blue the new line the Soviets have built:



This blue line I guess it had to serve the salt mines in Solotvina and some other industrial objective in Velykyi Bychkiv.

I have no ideea when the two bridges over Tisa were distroyed but I also found "suspicious" the metal part of the road brigde and I think it might have been brought there from somewhere else. The red paint might be just anti rust coating.
The new road bridge in Sighet is exactly in place of the old one, also visible on the 1910 map.

The other two bridge relics (in Luna la Tisa and valea Viseului) do not belong to rail bridges but road ones. Here they were in 1910:



Here you can find more maps from the same era:

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

Again, thanks for your response.

I knew the 1:200.000 KuK maps, it always amazes me how precise they are considering when they were made :-)

Here is a piece of KuK 1:75.000 - actually a Czechoslovakian map updated in 1925:



Obviously bridges in Sighet and Bocicoiu are still there, altso the narrow gauge railway can be seen. Basicaly same as the 1:200.000 map you posted.


Then there is 1:200.000 Soviet military map. Both pieces of shown below are officially updated to 1978. They could be out of date "from the start", ie. even then, but the bridge at Sighet is still there (still no road bridge), and there is no bridge in Bocicoiu Mare.





That's pretty much all I know for sure about this. It would be cool to learn some more


Also the Panoramio photo of the Velky Bickiv bridge (which I posted above) and the fact it looks very much like the debris that can be seen in the water in near Bickiv, might indicate, two things:
a) at some point before the bridge was destroyed it was turned to road traffic,
b) that it was not destroyed on purpose (it's only speculation, but 1998 flood have made great damage all over the Carpatians).

Obviously the trace of the railway can be clearly seen form the train window when passing thru the Bocicoiu Mare, but this doesn;t tell much about when it was dismantled

The date of closing / dismantling of Sighet railway bridge might be somewhat traced by checking when the line near Sighet Camara was made "straight", without crossroads (I have no way of checking this, my Romanian is way too weak to ask any of the railway workers in Sighet).

As of last July on Ukrainian bank the railway towards the place of the bridge still existed (it was visible from the train). However I don't know if it was usable.


From what I know the line to Velki Biczkiv was meant as an alternative to the line on Romanian bank, and it was built in Soviet times. It seems that line was "formally" built up to Bila Cerkva - it the farthest passanger traffic station in this line that I know of (for example it's still on the timetable of UZ, despite the fact that no trains go there). The same story says that of line was not finished (not reached Rachov) because of financial reasons.

I also read somewhere that in 80's there were transit trains from Teresva to Rachov through Romania, on the wide gauge, only for local inhabitants, and only with some kind of permit.

I have done some research and here is what I found:

The rail bridge over Tisa to Slatina (Solotvina) was buit in 1892. The catastrophic floods in 1970 weakened its structure so bad that no longer was it safe to use and it was eventualy demolished in 1978. The track was wide-gauge.
The other bridge over Tisa, to Veliki Bucikov, was destroyed by the same floods in 1970 (it wad badly hit and it didn't survive the flood). It also had wide-gauge track.
So we can see that the soviet map of 1978 was up to date.
Aparently Camara Sighet was the only station in Romania to have all tree track types: wide, normal and narrow.

Here is an interesting link, in Romanian:

http://www.jurnaluldevineri.ro/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3294:120-de-ani-de-la-inaugurarea-liniei-de-cale-ferata-sighetu-marmatiei--bocicoiu-mare

Thanks a lot for the link, and also for your time :-)

Are cineva o schema cu HM Camara sighet ? Fiind singura statie de pe reteaua CFR unde pot fi intalnite toate cele 3 tipuri de ecartament (760 mm, 1435 mm, 1524 mm) ma gandesc ca ae trebui sa aiba macar 7 linii, pentru a permite incrucisari de trenuri pe toate cele 3 ecartamente: doua linii de 760 mm, trei linii de 1435 mm si doua linii de 1524 mm!